Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! I now have 85k miles. If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. . The previous 21B10 customer satisfaction update was designed to send more oil to the cam phasers. 21N08B 1.2 Hours Manage Preferences - Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. If you click them and Your email address will not be published. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Just extended the coverage. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram For Cam Phaser Rattle These are technically not recalls but an extension of coverage if the customer has a concern and falls within the window of . Cookie Policy - By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. Hello Raptor world. You are using an out of date browser. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Privacy Statement - What did you do to your truck today? Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. What did you do to your truck today? It may not display this or other websites correctly. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. If youre experiencing engine shudder, the first thing you should do is take your vehicle to a Ford dealership or authorized service center for diagnosis. Terms of Service - I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. In some cases, this can lead to a crash. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. 21N08? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums What is this all about? Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. Your email address will not be published. Had my cam phasers done back in July. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . Reboot. The truck. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. You are using an out of date browser. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued - Ford Expedition Forum Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. Thank you for choosing Ford! However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. You may then need the cam phasers replaced through the 21N03 customer satisfaction plan. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. 2015 - 2020 F150 - 21N08? (2). I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. (1). Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. Dealer will. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. You must log in or register to reply here. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. t seems like every other Raptor and Ford 10R80 has these issues. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. Only 21B10 has to be completed, 21N08 is extended coverage. When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. Ford TSB 21N08 2019 F-150 | CarComplaints.com At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Manage Preferences - Are CSP's only performed as needed? (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. I am confused about this. cam phaser rattles. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. Likes: 1. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Plenty of better engineered options out there. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Detroit. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. The PCM controls many aspects of the vehicles engine and transmission, including ignition timing, fuel injection, and shifting. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. . Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. 14. I noticed mine is doing this as well. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. Strange first post. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. 10,492. Location. Over the weekend I pulled over to the side of the road to get something out of the glove box and the truck stalled while I was idling in park. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. Even with these known issues, the Ford F150 has an annual maintenance cost estimate of about $858 per year. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. Sounds good to me. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Ford Motor Company will provide a no-cost, one-time repair under program 21N08 to return the vehicle's PCM to the prior calibration. This just appeared in my ford pass. This PCM update is program 21B10. So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. Y'all better read that letter again. Gotcha. So far, the results are positive. 21B10 will be the first thing a Ford dealer would do. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. This seems like a red flag when combined with the recent "Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER" and "Program #21B10 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE REPROGRAM FOR CAM PHASER RATTLE" repairs that show up on the carfax. The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. Only detectable at a crawl speed. .any advice? I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. JavaScript is disabled. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. Advertising - develop an undesirable noise. The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. Contact Us - The 21N08 PCM reprogramming is due to an engine shudder that was noticed by some customers. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. Advertising - But what exactly is engine shudder? Thanks! It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. . Cookie Policy - I have a 2018, just got the same notice. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future.
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