An Interview With Dubuque Mayor Roy Buol

Jeffrey Bullock: Well, I wanna welcome all of you to this inaugural version of this vlog or this podcast, which is known as Conversations about Leadership Matters. We’re doing this in response to a number of our subscribers through this blog, which is past 15,000 now. So people are interested in the topic we’re talking about and they’re really interested in being able to hear from others and to hear from others who’ve made a big impact in their sphere of influence. And one person who’s made an enormous impact in his own sphere of influence is one of our alums, is a friend and colleague of mine, is the honorable Roy Buol who is mayor of Dubuque, Iowa. And he is our first guest. And I’m so happy that he’s agreed to join us and subject himself to this opportunity. And Roy, just thank you for agreeing to do this and welcome, welcome to this vlog.

Roy Buol: It’s my pleasure. It’s good to be with you today Jeffrey Bullock.

Jeffrey Bullock: You know, you and I have known each other a long time and one of the things we talk off and on about, we talk about politics, we talk about our stories, our histories. And one of the things that I’ve learned over the years in talking with alums is that every alum has a story. Every person has a story. So just tell us a little bit about your story. How did you get to this point? Did you come out of the womb wanting to be mayor of Dubuque? Or how did that happen?

Roy Buol: No, my story, I’m a native Dubuquer, so I was actually born here in the city of Dubuque. And when I was 18 months old, my father left our family of seven children and my mother. And I was the second youngest at 18 months old. And my grandparents who lived in the north end of Dubuque in a small gray stone home, took us all in. And that’s where we were raised. We grew up in that home. We actually didn’t leave there, you know, until we got married and each of us. During that time, I can remember a lot of organizations in the city of Dubuque, you know, one that comes immediately to mind is the Salvation Army and all of the help that they gave our family, both as individuals and as organizations. And, you know, I’ve never forgotten that.

And when I became an adult, you know, I always thought about someday giving back to the community that had given us so much. And then my lovely wife Deborah said, ”You know, maybe you should run for city council. You always wanted to give back.” You know, and this was back in 1995. And I said, ”Well, I’ll look into that.” And it was a very brief look and I decided to run right before the nomination period closed. And I won that election. And, really dove into city governance and how, you know, it can do things to help citizens of the community and it’s really become a passion for me over the last almost 24 years now.

Jeffrey Bullock: Well, that’s a lot of service and we’ll wanna talk about that. But you talked about being, that your grandparents welcomed you into their home. I mean, say more about that. I mean, how old were you at that time?

Roy Buol: Well, I was 18 months old. I had a younger brother and my oldest sibling, my oldest sister was about 12. So my grandparents who at that time were 57 years old took us into their small home. There was literally a bathroom that had about a three foot square open space, you know, between the sink and the toilet and the bathtub. And if you can imagine, with four siblings, there are four sisters. And it was always a struggle to find timing, you know, to get into that bathroom. So I think that’s how I learned to get up early because my mother would knock on our door at quarter after five in the morning from the time I started in kindergarten all the way through until the girls were out of the house anyway so that we could get into the bathroom before they took it over for the last hour of preparation.

So well it was, you know, there wasn’t a lot extras, you know, in the household but we always were fed. I learned to cook and bake starting at the age of five. I had my first garden in the backyard when I was five years old, a little three foot square space that I planted some corn in that I had enough for maybe a half of a cup of kernels when I was done that I actually ate that summer, I remember that. You know, that there were always neighbors, friends, organizations as I said, that, you know, helped us out. I got my first baseball glove when I was 12 years old, along with my brother. And that was provided by a gentleman who drove a semi-truck for the feed company that my mother worked at. And you know, she worked her entire adult life you know, into her 70s, I believe. And you know, it was all, you know, to help make sure that we had a good solid footing, you know, that we could go on in life and be successful.

Jeffrey Bullock: So, I mean, that’s fascinating. Clearly your grandparents or your mother were important influences in your life and that was a…I mean, I’m trying to…about the age of your grandfather when, you know, so he’s, I’m trying to visualize this. He and your grandmother have raised their family. They’re thinking about retirement. They’ve got a home, and suddenly that all changes and it’s turned upside down again. What can you tell us about your grandpa and grandma and your mother? And clearly there are big influences on you. What did you learn from them throughout this entire process?

Roy Buol: Well, my grandfather, you know, as long as I knew him, he worked. He passed away at 72 from cancer. But he went to work every day. He was a welder, a boiler welder at the Dubuque Boat & Boiler Works. My grandmother, you know, took care of the house. She basically was the one that was home all the time when we would come at different hours from school or whatever it was. Grandma was the one who was there when we were on those odd schedules. My mother worked into her 70s as well. And, you know, she didn’t have transportation in some years and you know, she would use the bus to get to and from work or whatever other means that she could find.

And, you know, they were always focused on the children, you know, my siblings and I and our success. And I think they tried to do what they could to make sure we had what we needed. We went on a vacation every summer, usually to my other, my uncle in Saint Louis. But they always made sure that we had the basics, you know, what we needed and took us to church religiously. You know, doing all the things that they could do to make sure that we were going to be good adults and contributors to our community wherever we would live.

Jeffrey Bullock: I mean, they just sound like absolutely amazing people.

Roy Buol: They were.

Jeffrey Bullock: I’d like to meet them. Maybe someday in heaven I hope to meet them. So I know they’re there, we’re still working on it. Well, clearly I mean, there are elements of I know you well enough to know that as I hear you talk, there’s elements of that formative experience that translates into some of your convictions about leadership. Now, you’ve been involved in leadership positions in our community for 24 years. So that’s a long time.

Roy Buol: It is. You know, based on history and what other people have, how long they’ve served the longest serving council member and the longest serving mayor. But, you know, I learned a lot of those qualities of leadership and of working hard while I was in school. I can remember a lot of my leadership abilities I think started when I got into athletics. And there was some coaches in seventh grade that inspired me to get into athletics. And I actually ended up at senior high school. You know, I was a quarterback of the football team and played basketball, ran track. And every one of those coaches that I had, you know, from seventh grade on was always encouraging and, you know, talking about the future and what would you like to be and, you know, it takes hard work to achieve that.

And so I always had that little push behind me, that nudge behind me and I learned how to work with others, you know, and work as a team to get things done. And I think that has served me to this day. You know, the successes that we’ve had here in the city of Dubuque are all based on teamwork and working together and having a plan, and not looking so much at today as at the future and you know, what kind of a place you’re trying to create for others. And so I think it’s all been very helpful, informative, you know, making me what I am today.

Jeffrey Bullock: Well, you mentioned the word teamwork and that I imagine for many of our listeners, teamwork and politics don’t necessarily seem certainly if we’re basing our impressions on the nightly news or what’s happening in DC, it has been going on for years. Teamwork and politics don’t seem to go together. So how do you do that? How do you lead in such a way that you can be a team as opposed to my way or the highway type of approach?

Roy Buol: Well, you know, in Dubuque, we do something that, believe it or not is not done everywhere. It’s unique to cities that are successful. And that is, we engage citizens as partners in all of the big decisions that we make. I can remember all the big projects we’ve had, the Bee Branch Project, the redevelopment of the millwork area, you know, our water pollution and control facilities. All of those big projects that we’ve done while I’ve been on the council have had tremendous amounts of input from citizens and visitors. And so it’s really, you know, working as a part of the team. Obviously it takes, you know, some leadership in different organizations, individuals to make that happen. But in the end, it’s all about engaging those citizens as partners and making sure that their ideas, their thoughts are included in the process and that gives them buy-in into the success of those projects.

And, you know, it just kind of feeds on itself. You know, if you include them, they always know that if there’s something big coming, they’re gonna be a part of it if they choose to be and then they’d back the finished product. And we’ve been very successful in doing that and planning with our Envision 2000 project. It was the original one when I first got on the council and that we worked on. And we’ve had those every, you know, five to 10 years since , so that we are current, we know what citizens are looking for and we all work collectively towards those goals. And that’s how the city council has functioned since I’ve been on it.

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah. Well, it’s functioned very well and I think you’re being also very gracious because I know a lot of the citizens in our community as do you. I have to admit that we’re not always easiest to work with. So how, you know, I’m sure that you know what I’m talking about. Yet we’re all citizens and I think that has an application locally and across the state and at our federal government. But kind of, we’re in an environment, I think of, we, they, us, them, you know, either, or, and it strikes me that if that’s where we continue to be as a culture, it doesn’t end very well. And I’ve always admired the way that you’ve led the city. And I don’t hear a lot of either oral language. I mean, what am I on track there? Or I mean, how do you respond to that?

Roy Buol: Well, it, you know, it comes down to where government is functioning and functioning well today. And that is at the local level. In any city in the United States, the work is being done at the local level, and that’s where things are happening. That’s where they’re occurring. Obviously we need, you know, help and assistance and partnership from state and federal resources. But, you know, when it comes to the decision making and the decisions about what projects are important, you know, what projects will make the city a better place for future generations, most of that work is being done at the local level. And, you know, that’s got to change. You know, there’s gotta be more of that collaborative spirit in our state governments and in our federal government. And I’m not sure how we’re going to get there.

I keep hoping that the best practices that cities are creating, you know, and the cities that are successful are ones where different entities work together. I think that hopefully will have an influence long term on people, the voting public who vote for people to represent them. And maybe they’ll start asking you more questions about, well, how are you going to cooperate or partner with the other party or, you know, an organization that doesn’t necessarily agree with your opinion? But, right now it’s just almost solely happening at the local level. And we’re just very fortunate in Dubuque that we have a lot of partners that collaborate with the city. And we have a lot of planning that’s in place so that everyone has the opportunity to voice their opinion, you know, their desires, you know, give those to the people that represent them and we make decisions based on that input.

Jeffrey Bullock: You know, I really do, I have to commend you. Dana and I have lived a number of places across the country as you know, and just really the collaborative nature of the council and the way that we observe all of you working together. And clearly, you know, we all have differences of opinion. I’m not suggesting it’s uniform, but there’s, there’s always an element of at least feeling like people are heard and it’s hard. It’s hard to describe it. But as a person, I can tell you like I know it when I experienced it and I think we experience it a lot in this community. And it’s amazing the number of friendships and connections that you can develop with people just on a basic human level. And we’ve got friends across the political spectrum, across the theological spectrum, but just when you know somebody and take time to listen to each other and really listen, it changes the nature of that relationship. I mean, do you experience that as mayor? Is that an important part of what you do?

Roy Buol: Well, I do experience that. And then I can give you a great example of, you know, people are coming from disparate backgrounds, different backgrounds, and yet working together for the common good. And that’s the organization I belong to, the U.S. Conference of Mayors. You know, other than the big city mayors who run on a party basis, I honestly could not tell you the political affiliation of most of the other mayors. And that’s because, you know, we’re working on common issues in our cities trying to come up with best solutions. And that’s the conversation that carries the day. It’s not about what political party you belong to or what your philosophy is. It’s how do we turn best practices into a project in our city that will make it better for our citizens? And I think, you know, there used to be a day, I can remember I’m old enough, you know, when political parties didn’t agree. No, they never will agree on everything, but they could come together around common issues, you know, and work together to make them better.

And, you know, we’ve got to get back to that day. I mean that is our democracy at work and today I think that we are somewhat at risk of, you know, throwing that all away if we don’t come together and work for the common good and make it work for everyone. Because, you know, we’ve shown, you know, in the City of Dubuque and Conference of Majors and the Iowa League of Cities and the League of Cities nationally, they’re all doing that. And uh, but that’s local leadership again. You know, we’ve got to get the, get our state and federal leaders to come together in a similar manner and try to work on many of these big issues that we all need to resolve.

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah, yeah. No, I agree and I can’t imagine anybody would disagree and the minute I say that, I suspect…

Roy Buol: Yes. So you’ll find someone who will.

Jeffrey Bullock: But when you think about it, so we were kind of a microcosm, I guess, I think, of what could be in terms of decency and civility that can also translate into difficult conversations, difficult processes. But then are translated into things that matter. And when I look at our city and our community over the last two and a half decades, I mean, it’s been a metamorphosis, a complete transformation. And I won’t even go into all the different projects that you and your colleagues have been involved in. But I am interested, I mean, when you look ahead, you know, a good leader is always looking ahead and not just around the corner, but the next corner. I mean, what do you see? What are the things that keep you awake at night? That’s always kind of a fun question to ask people. You know, what keeps you awake as you look at the future of our city?

Roy Buol: Yeah. You know, our city really is one of many in this country that I think share the same concerns. And you know, it might sound like an odd concern to have, but for me, you know, in my campaign running on sustainability as the mayoral campaign in 2005, you know, I made the statement that the next five years would decide the next 50 years for the city of Dubuque. And we made some big decisions around sustainability that, you know, have really benefited the city of Dubuque, our Water & Resource Recovery Center, that at that time, you know, it was a lot of new technology but has really proven to be a boon for the city of Dubuque, self-sustaining literally produces its own energy. And other water that comes out of there is actually cleaner than the water that gets pumped into our system.

So things like that that are, I think are really going to determine the success, not only of our cities and our states in this country, but globally is how we’re going to address climate change and the human element related to that. Because, that I think is what’s driving these drastic, well, I know it’s what’s driving these drastic changes in our weather. And all of those weather changes are creating tremendous problems for cities. So I think if we really try to get a handle on our sustainability in our cities and provide best practices to reduce carbon emissions and very clean water and just an overall clean environment that reuses and reduces and recycles as opposed to just tossing, I think that is absolutely critical to future generations and their success. And I think you would hear that from every mayor and city council in this country and yet it’s not the policy in many regards, you know, at the state and federal level, which is really what we need to bring along to make this viable.

And every other country I think in the world is working hard to reduce that. And, you know, we’ve got to get back to that task and really do what we can because that’s going to really, I think, determine every city’s success going forward. And that does keep me up at night. I think about that quite a bit. But I’m happy with what the city of Dubuque has been doing and in many ways, creating replicable models for how to deal with things like storm water and, you know, our wastewater and recycling. And you know, all the things that are going to mean a lot to future generations.

Jeffrey Bullock: So when you talk about the human element of climate change, those are the kinds of things you’re talking about, the practices, the discipline that we can do individually on a small basis. But when multiplied over 60,000, 70,000 80,000 100,000 citizens translates into a meaningful impact. Is that what we’re talking about?

Roy Buol: That’s a big piece of it, but, you know, our city is doing a lot of things that, you know, with big projects that are making a huge difference. The Bee Branch Flood Mitigation project, you know, it’s…

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Roy Buol: …how to [inaudible 00:24:27] storm water issues in our city, you know, health of our citizens because, you know, they’re not having to deal with mold and flooding. And it’s clean the water. It’s much cleaner water going into the river, you know, then comes out of the river.

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah. Water is…what do they say the policy people? The water is the new oil of the 21st century. So clean water.

Roy Buol: It is. I think of all the water on the face of the earth, only 2% of that is fresh is water.

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah. Well, that’s a problem. That’s a challenge. So why don’t you…I mean, you’ve had an enormous number of successes as a council, as a mayor. What’s your biggest disappointment? I mean, we all have disappointments. Can you think about what your biggest disappointment is?

Roy Buol: Well, that’s hard to come up with something in the city of Dubuque. I mean, so many of the things that citizens have brought forward, you know, as their top 10 priorities, you know, and they’re envisioning process is many of them have been accomplished. But, you know, there’s never enough funding, enough resources, you know, to do all of the projects you need. I would think if there was one thing that I’m disappointed in and it’s not because for the lack of trying or, you know, putting money and funds and partnership efforts towards it. It’s the poverty level, I think, you know, in every city in the country. But for, you know, for me it’s local and, you know, it’s way too high. Now granted we get a lot of new citizens into the city of Dubuque, you know, from other communities. They come here to try to create a better life. And I can really relate to that.

You know, with my background, I know how hard it is when you don’t have resources. And in our case, we had the resources not only provided by our family, but, you know, by organizations and individuals in the community. But there are so many now, you know, as opposed to then that are in need, that don’t have the educational background. You know, that come from places that were not the easiest places to live. And we’re trying to create a place of opportunity for those people where they can get some reeducation, some retraining, get a job and start to work them and their family members out of poverty. And there’s never enough resources, you know, to put toward that. And I think that is, you know, one of the things, not only in the city of Dubuque, but I think every city in the country needs to double down on and hopefully get some help from state and federal governments, you know, to look at best practices and make sure that they’re expanded upon in communities so that we can give everyone an opportunity, you know, for a hand up and try to get them a better quality of life and so that everyone can share in the successes.

Jeffrey Bullock: What can we do? What can this regular people do to help that? What can we do to help in those situations? Are there things, just regular citizens who aren’t involved in, you know, in public service or the things that we can do to the help with, you call it a hand up. What do you see in your whole constellation of engagements? What do you see as opportunities?

Roy Buol: Well, you know, there, we have a lot of volunteers in the state of Dubuque, a tremendous number. And there are different programs that dependent on your age, there’s a senior volunteers, for instance, that do reading in our schools.

Jeffrey Bullock: I’m not there yet.

Roy Buol: You’re not there yet. No, but you know, they’re very helpful with helping kids read. There’s our VISTA volunteers that are tremendous assets in the community. They do a lot of work with people of lesser means, you know, to help them. There’s different organizations and community foundation, lot of programming, you know, to help those lesser means. Our community college that has a retraining program in things like welding, computers, those types of things that people can get education at a pretty good rate. You know, not at all expensive because it’s subsidized, but just opportunities that can help them, you know, those who want to give them a hand up and they’re just volunteers.

And I think in most churches in this community, most organizations or most groups all have programs that in one way or another are trying to help those of lesser means. It comes down in many cases to dollars and cents and the resources that are available to those groups or those individuals. And that’s where I think, you know, as a city and state and federal government, we could provide more resources to those programs that have proven to be successful, that have proven to be beneficial, you know, to that population. And there’s just a lack of dollars and cents right now, you know, to make them put down on the scale where we can actually get done what needs to be done, you know, to make an effective change.

Jeffrey Bullock: I hear that. I hear that and I’m thinking now, as I’m kind of trying to process this, let’s see, I’m reminded of the fact that you graduated from the University of Dubuque. You had a long career with John Deere. And if I recall, while you were working at John Deere, you also went to school and you were also raising a family. So I mean, you had a lot going on and clearly you don’t lack for energy. Now, what year did you graduate from the University of Dubuque?

Roy Buol: Nineteen ninety two.

Jeffrey Bullock: Ninety two. And I’m guessing that you weren’t an economics major because if you were, you would have known that your compensation as mayor basically translates to about a quarter, about 25 cents an hour, maybe something like that. So you’re doing…

Roy Buol: I was a business major.

Jeffrey Bullock: Okay. So you knew what you were getting into.

Roy Buol: And I did not run for mayor not knowing how much I was gonna get paid, believe me. I learned quite a bit in that program and, you know, I use that not to my benefit, you know, serving as mayor and, you know, to just come in, it’s absolutely critical, you know, to have that kind of education right and serve in the position that I’m in. There’s just a lot of business acumen you have to know.

Jeffrey Bullock: Well, and I think Roy, I mean, you’re not going to say it, but I’ll say it for you. It’s a labor of love for you. It really is. I see that in you and I think that’s something that all of us can do. It’s a passion for you and it, it really, I’m not trying to embarrass you, but it really plays out in your leadership. And, you know, I for one and I know I speak for many of us are grateful for that passion. One of your other passions that our listeners might not be aware of is that you have a passion for aesthetic beauty in many ways, but particularly in the area of landscaping. And you also have been with the university. We were talking the other day. I can’t believe it. I think it’s 17 years since you’ve…

Roy Buol: Seventeen years.

Jeffrey Bullock: Good heavens. What has happened to the time? I don’t know.

Roy Buol: I don’t know. I don’t feel any older. I might look a couple of years older than I did back then. But I guess it’s, you know, when you have a passion and you really enjoy what you do, you know, time really isn’t relevant. You know, it goes by a lot quicker than you’d like, but, you know, I’ve not done anything in my life work-wise, well what some people consider work, I consider landscaping as a relaxation. But, you know, I’ve always enjoyed it. You know, my wife will tell you I don’t sleep a whole lot. And so I have to have something to do to keep me busy. And that’s my relaxation at home as well. I mean, I love going outside, you know, in the winter shoveling snow. It doesn’t really bother me too much.

Jeffrey Bullock: Well, we got, I mean, as you know, we get lots and lots of compliments about just the beauty of our campus and how it’s landscaped and taken care of. I mean, I’ve said to people, if you look at the mulch around the base of the trees, those are perfect circles. I mean, who thinks that way? They’re perfect circles, but that’s a…

Roy Buol: I’ve always told my staff, you know, that everything matters. You know, it’s the little things that people notice, you know, the candy wrapper, you know, that’s blowing in the breeze or the pop can that’s sitting in the gutter. And I know you’ve seen the grounds crew around the University of Dubuque, stopping when they’re driving down the street and picking up a bag or a piece of trash, you know, along the way, throwing it in a bucket that they almost always have in their gaiter. And that’s because, you know, I tried to instill in them that, you know, if everyone just drove by those things, we’d have a much different looking campus and everything matters. Every piece of paper and you know, every, kind word, whatever it might be, everything matters in an institution, an institution like the University of Dubuque

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah. Well, it’s really apparent. I mean, the way, you know, we were having some, actually some architects were on campus a couple of years ago unbeknownst to us. They were eventually bidding on a project and had come just to sort of get a sense of the place. They looked a little lost. They didn’t even ask for directions. They looked a little lost. And one of your colleagues noticed that they looked a little sort of absent or unaware of where they were or lost. And so he initiated a conversation with them, introduced themself, told them about what he does, asked if he could help them to get to where they needed to go. And not only that he stopped what he was doing and walked them to the place they were looking for. And I mean, you know, as a president, you just can’t, you can’t put a price on that. That tells you that people are invested, that they care about what they do, they care about the mission of the school. And in that way, it’s more than just about flowers and grass and it does, doesn’t it? The landscaping of the place signals, an attitude of either invitation and care or an attitude of we don’t care, and therefore you should neither. I mean, is that part of what…it seems like that’s part of what you’re getting at?

Roy Buol: Well, that’s a, you know, we actually hear those things from some parents, our staff has both physical planned and the ground staff that they’ve made the comments that well if you take care of your grounds this well and the buildings, you know, are always clean and kept up, I know you’re gonna take good care of my suit or my son or my daughter. And we hear that a lot. We’ve also heard from different parents that, you know, they weren’t intending to visit the University of Dubuque and they drove by, they saw the beautiful campus and the buildings and they just had to take a visit. And I know we’ve had students enrolled at the university that their parents were some of those that a noticed and stopped to take a look. And you know, really it’s about providing quality of life amenities, you know, for people that we care about the most that we’re trying to help the most. And that’s the students that are on our campus.

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah. Well thank you. Thank you for that. And thanks for what you do for our community. And I think it’s only appropriate that as mayor, you should have the last word here. So we’ve got lots of alums that are listening to this, are watching this and you’d be surprised. But many, many, many of our current students are listening. As you know, we’ve got students from 44 states and 27 different countries, but a lot of them stay in our community when they graduate. There are wonderful opportunities for them here. Wonderful companies, wonderful nonprofits, educational institutions, public education, parochial education. There just really are limitless opportunities for vocation, for employment, for enjoyment. What would you wanna say to those students as mayor and as a lifelong a member of this community?

Roy Buol: Well, first of all, I wanna thank them for selecting to go to school in the city of Dubuque and then at the University of Dubuque. And we have a lot of jobs here for them. I hope more of them decide that they want to stay. We get a lot of new people coming to our community now where they fill the jobs that we have here, the vacant jobs. And, when I meet with those groups, I always tell them that they are some of our most important citizens because they bring a different perspective from anyone else who’s lived in the city of Dubuque like I have my entire life. They bring a lot of new ideas, a lot of new enthusiasm to this community. And certainly I know many of the students at the University of Dubuque the enthusiasm they have not only for the school the school, but for the city of Dubuque. And I’m just so very grateful that they’ve selected Dubuque as the place they want to go to school. And I certainly hope that we can entice more than to call Dubuque home long term because they really do represent a big part of our future here in the city.

Jeffrey Bullock: Yeah, I agree. And, you know, as you know, I’m around those students a lot and, it’s a transformative experience for them here. They are the future, but you and your colleagues have really worked together to creating an environment that they want to invest in. And that’s not happening in a lot of places, but it is happening here and I think you and your colleagues and all those who think about these things on a daily basis are really to be commended. So I just wanna thank you. I wanna thank you for your contributions as mayor, for your contributions to us as a colleague here at the university. But just for the example you’re setting for those of us who are connected to the university and to our alums who are scattered across the country and across the world. And it’s been a privilege for me to be able to just chat with you a little bit about what you do and, you know, God bless you in your remaining years of leadership. And I won’t even say remaining years of engagement because I know you’re going to be engaged for a long, long time. So thanks Roy.

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