Conversations With Leaders: Anderson Sainci

Jeff Bullock: So we wanna welcome you to our blog, Leadership Matters for a Changing World and this special segment of the blog which is conversations with leaders. And I’m really, really excited today to be able to have a conversation with a really special young man, one of our former students, Anderson Sainci. And I look forward to having this conversation with Anderson today and look forward to you being engaged in this conversation as well. I think you’re gonna learn a lot of interesting things and I’ve been wanting to talk with Anderson for some time and I’m really happy that he’s agreed to be a part of our vlog today. So I wanna welcome all of you and Anderson, I wanna welcome you to this vlog and thank you for your willingness to chat with me for a bit.

Now, our audience here, what they don’t realize is we’ve known each other a long time, but they might not all know you. A lot of our viewers are our alums as are you. So remind me, I’m getting a little older, remind me, you graduated probably you have two degrees from us, an undergraduate and graduate degree, but you graduated seven, maybe undergraduate degree, seven years ago, eight years ago?

Anderson Sainci: 2010 and then 2012 for my master’s. Now you’re showing my age a little bit.

Jeff Bullock: So you graduated in 2010 as your undergraduate degree, and then you had a master’s here in MBA or MAC, a Master of Arts in Communication, if I remember right. So that’s 2012. Holy smokes.

Anderson Sainci: Yeah. Time goes by fast when you’re having fun, huh?

Jeff Bullock: You’re 30, you’re 31. You’re 31.

Anderson Sainci: I won’t say.

Jeff Bullock: You’re right at that. You were right in there. I mean, okay. So I met you here. Okay, 2010 you started as a student and you came onto campus fall of 2005/6, something like that?

Anderson Sainci: Right.

Anderson Sainci: All right.

Jeff Bullock: So what brought you here? What brought you to the university?

Anderson Sainci: So originally I would say faith brought me here, you know. It’s not like I went on a map and say, hey, let’s go to Dubuque. I think God had a perfect plan for me and I just had to follow. And also it would help that I had an older brother who was out here as well. So I had an older brother who was here wrestling and I had an older cousin who was here playing football. If you remember Walner Belleus.

Jeff Bullock: Walner was your cousin?

Anderson Sainci: Yeah.

Jeff Bullock: He was a free safety for us.

Anderson Sainci: He was an amazing football player.

Jeff Bullock: He was from…

Anderson Sainci: Immokalee.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah, he played like a year or two in Tennessee. Was he from…

Anderson Sainci: Playing in Immokalee then he played football for the Hawkeyes.

Jeff Bullock: For the Hawkeyes. That’s right. He returned punts and kickoffs and yeah, he was good. He was very, I didn’t realize he was your cousin. And your brother?

Anderson Sainci: My older brother who was out here and he wrestled here.

Jeff Bullock: His first name?

Anderson Sainci: Mark. Mark Sainci.

Jeff Bullock: Yes. Yes. So here from where?

Anderson Sainci: So originally Florida, so we all came here from Florida.

Jeff Bullock: What part?

Anderson Sainci: Lakeland, Lakeland, Florida, Polk County. Right there in the meadow.

Jeff Bullock: Well, that’s a long way from Dubuque, Iowa. So how did your brother get here? You in a way followed your brother, but how did you all get here?

Anderson Sainci: Yeah, so sports was a key for all of us, I would say. My older brother wrestled, of course, Walner was an amazing football player and I wrestled in high school as well. And as we all were searching for college, again, I just think faith led all of us here.

Jeff Bullock: Know what, so John McGovern, coach McGovern was coach then and still is.

Anderson Sainci: Still the coach. Amazing coach.

Jeff Bullock: Amazing, he came here a long time. So while wrestling’s a tough sport, I mean and that’s one of the things I really like about it. It requires an awful lot as discipline. You have to develop a strong emotion because nobody likes to lose, but we all lose. You gotta recover, you know? So when did you start wrestling as a kid? Just out of curiosity?

Anderson Sainci: So I started off my freshman year in high school, believe it or not. And there was a funny story behind that. I was actually heading over towards the basketball tryouts. And I remember the wrestling coach just standing right outside the wrestling room, watching me walking by and I was like 4’5″ with long hair. And he looks at me and he said, “Hey kid, you’ll never make the basketball team, come over here and the wrestle.” And I was like, he’s probably right. So I went out and wrestled and he was recruiting for a 103 ponder and I just picked up wrestling ever since that.

Jeff Bullock: So what is it you liked about it?

Anderson Sainci: Wrestling as you mentioned, it teaches you a lot of things. Number one, it teaches you about hard work, dedication, the times where you’re alone and you have to cut weight. It’s a mental thing that you just have to overcome. It teaches you about teamwork as well. Of course, you have a variety of people from all over who’s coming together to either win a state championship or a national title. So you have to be able to work with people that are different from you. And just the importance of just winning, right? You wanna win. It teaches you about competition and no excuses because like other sports, you have people that you can say, hey, you didn’t do your part. In wrestling, it’s mono versus mono. So it teaches you a lot of skillsets that, you know, every single day that I use even now.

Jeff Bullock: Right, right. I wrestled in high school and I have to tell you, it was terrible. I was a terrible wrestler. I didn’t really start to figure it out till the last half of my senior year. But as I look back, that was…being a terrible wrestler was actually one of the most important lessons, life lessons I could have learned. Obviously, I would’ve loved to have one more, but what you learn is, to your point, is you learn how to pick yourself up again. And then so much a life whether it’s a career or going to college or raising a family is so much a life is just learning how to pick yourself up again. I mean, that was the great takeaway for me in addition to the discipline and the hard work and, you know, working through, you know, perseverance and all of that, but just learning how to pick yourself up again.

Anderson Sainci: And it just adds too, when you have like the right leader who is trying to teach you these skillsets and develop you, and every morning the coach or that leader is teaching you how to get up and grind every single day, right? Which is something that I think so many people need to just learn how to get up every single day and just go after your goals.

Jeff Bullock: Right. Now, so when you came here, so you came in 2006 so you had, I mean, we had some, we still do, but we had some really good wrestlers in those years. Was Josh, was Josh Terrell, was he part of your cadre? So Josh…

Anderson Sainci: Evan Brown, Jake Durbin, Mark Schultz. We had a really good team.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah, you did. And there were a couple of national champions in that whole group. And what I remember about that group, just as a team was that you were a very tight-knit group and I remember you all being, I mean just very disciplined. I mean I’d see you around together and it seems like there were a lot of friendships that developed from those years together. Is that held true? Have you kept in contact with [crosstalk 00:07:56]

Anderson Sainci: Yeah, I think a lot of us still stay in contact every single day. Like Josh Terrell is one of my best friends, godfather of one of my children. So we stay in contact at least every other day we’re talking and…

Jeff Bullock: Now he and Tina, they’re back. Is he in Des Moines?

Anderson Sainci: Des Moines.

Jeff Bullock: So they moved from here to…because she was from Bellevue, if I remember right.

Anderson Sainci: They have a young one, Genesis, so amazing.

Jeff Bullock: That’s right. I got to meet her. I think I saw them at homecoming this year.

Anderson Sainci: Most likely.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. Yeah. So you guys still stay in touch?

Anderson Sainci: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Jeff Bullock: Oh that makes me happy.

Anderson Sainci: And we have a special tie even with the University of Dubuque. You know, so Josh got married here. We both met our wives here. I believe I proposed around here in the Dubuque area. And then also too with the school board, you know, the university allowed me to do my come-out speech here. So there’s like a special connection with not only the wrestling program, but our connection here with the university because of the relationship that we’ve established here.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. Well, you guys contributed a lot then and do now. I mean, I have to be the fun part for me and what I get to do is this, is following our graduates, developing friendships, kind of watching them grow and kind of move into their lives and raise their family. I mean, it’s really, that’s the privilege for me. And they’re just so many, and I think of well, you were wrestling here, so what else? What else were you involved in when you were here on campus?

Anderson Sainci: So, wrestling, I was involved in different organizations. Black Student Union, Phi-Beta-Sigma Fraternity, I was involved in SIFE, Students In Free Enterprise at that time when it was called SIFE, I believe it’s called something different.

Jeff Bullock: It’s called something. I still call it SIFE. I’ve forgotten the name of it and all…

Anderson Sainci: It’s something and something business-related. So it was many things that I could be involved with that I was passionate about. I tried to get involved with when I was here.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking, were you a business major?

Anderson Sainci: I was a business major.

Jeff Bullock: So you would have been in this building a fair amount after it was built. Yeah. You were one of the first group of students in this building. So when you think back, tell me about some of your favorite professors. Who are some of the people you remember when you were here?

Anderson Sainci: Well, there’s a lot of people that actually kind of like stand out. So the first one would probably be Muzinga, Lawrence Muzinga?

Jeff Bullock: Yes, he’s a personality.

Anderson Sainci: He just had an amazing personality. And it wasn’t till after I graduated where it really hit me what he was trying to teach me. So you just have to remember, I come from Florida, very diverse community. You just surround yourself around so many people where you moved to Iowa and it was kind of like, it was a little different I would just say that.

Jeff Bullock: Say more about that. So what was that like?

Anderson Sainci: So it’s different because of the culture, right? So meaning Iowa and still Iowa is still a little behind when it comes to recruiting and retaining a diverse group of people and making sure that they feel welcomed and included. So when I got here, Muzinga was always on a lot of our cases like, hey, you have to outwork that individual. Like you have to get up every single day and do this. And I used to be like, hey dude, why you’re on my case, right? And it never really hit me he was just trying to teach me not only about, you know, local competition, but global perspective that hey, as an African American male, life is not easy, right? And you have to want it and you have to go and get it every single day. And it wasn’t until after I graduated from college that I was like, okay, I got what he was trying to teach me a long time ago.

Jeff Bullock: So you got your high school wrestling coach is teaching those kinds of lessons. You’re experiencing that, I’m sure with your family and we’ll talk a little bit about that and I wanna talk about that. You’re experiencing that in the classroom. So it’s a different…it’s not the wrestling room, it’s the classroom now. So that’s a wonderful lesson. I know when I started seminary, so after college and I went to seminary in Pittsburgh and you know, as odd as it sounds culturally, it was a much different environment than I had grown up in. I had grown up in a rural area, you know, small-town and though I was at seminary, it was pretty diverse actually in those years. But it wasn’t so much the different ethnicities, it’s just the community itself was so different. It just, it was really, really a tough. My first six months, I mean, I was lonely I felt out of place, I didn’t quite, you know, language patterns were different. And so, you know, that’s just me and that’s just kind of a little, little tiny deal. I can’t imagine what that must be like when you’re moving from Lakeland. So you’ve got a, how many were in your graduating class?

Anderson Sainci: We have a few hundreds in our graduating class.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. And so, and probably very diverse. And so that just was, that was the air you breathe. You probably, I’m imagining that’s just what you knew. You didn’t think anything about that. So when you come here, how does that, you mentioned it’s a challenge, but help people who wouldn’t have any sense of what you’re talking about kind of dissect what those challenges are to even the most what might to you seem just sort of small things. What is it like for a person to make that transition? Because we have students from not just from Florida, from Saudi Arabia, from Europe, from Texas, from all over the country. What is it like for a student to transition into this environment at the university but also into the larger Dubuque community?

Anderson Sainci: Right. I think that’s a great question. So I just imagine a good example would be if you’re so used to getting a haircut and when you move to a place and there’s no place for you to get a haircut or there’s no place where you can get your favorite potato chip or candy bar, you will begin to think like, what’s wrong with this community? So one of the things that I did, and I think a lot of people, you have to figure out how to adjust in any environment that you’re not accustomed to. And it doesn’t mean you have to lose yourself, right? I think a lot of people when they move to different places or a different organization you feel that, hey, maybe I have to keep me out of the organization, my values. It’s like no, bring you in, that’s what makes the community so good, it’s what make organizations so good. And there’s an opportunity now for you to either create awareness like, hey, I used to always get a haircut, now I can’t find a place to get a haircut. And either someone will start it or you can do it. Or you can just begin to create awareness with other people just about, hey, this is what makes me feel included, makes me feel a part of something that’s larger and it just creates an awareness for everyone.

Jeff Bullock: Right, right. Now see, I’m a child of the ’70s. So the solution was just not to cut your hair.

Anderson Sainci: Not to cut your hair.

Jeff Bullock: Nobody cut their hair. I mean, it was awful. I mean, you look back at pictures back in one of those…

Anderson Sainci: We’re still looking for those pictures with you and [crossstalk 00:15:15]

Jeff Bullock: They’re undercover, under lock and key, and we’ve forgotten that…they’re in a safe and we’ve forgotten the combination.

Anderson Sainci: I would assume it’s very similar. You grew up in Pittsburgh, right? And you were so accustomed to your culture, your day to day duties. Then you moved to Dubuque. And at that time, from my understanding, Dubuque was facing a variety of challenges, right? And you had to bring, like what did you experiencing when you got here?

Jeff Bullock: Well, I grew up in Western Iowa, Southern Minnesota was my kind of emotional home. And so I had 126 students in my graduating class. And people have a hard time believing this, but in those years, your ticket to freedom was the day you got your driver’s license. And so in our county, we had one stoplight in our entire county, in the entire county. That’s how small it was. And, you know, so it was very small, a large farming community. And I just, I knew I wanted to leave. In fact, my wife and I were talking this morning and then I like, oh, I can’t believe my mother let me do this. But when I was 16 and my best friend and I, we’d saved our money and we were either gonna go, we saved her money to go to football camp.

But it was 1976, the summer of 1976, so the bicentennial of the country, I wanted to see Washington DC. So I’m 16 years old and for reasons that are beyond me, my mother let us use her car and we drove to Washington DC. And we went up the Washington Monument and then we’re in Washington DC and we still had money. And I said, ” wonder what New York City’s like. So let’s go.” So we drove up to New York City. You know, it’s crazy to think about that now, I have children that age. They’re like, we want to go to Washington DC. No, you don’t. But there was something in me in those years that wanted to, you know, I love the community that I grew up in, but I needed to get out, right? So I had a desire to experience the world.

What was a shock for me, and I bounced around in college. What was a shock for me in Pittsburgh was the part of the city I lived in at that time was a really impoverished area of the city. So there was poverty in rural America, you know that, but it’s a different kind of poverty. It’s poverty’s poverty, but it’s more hidden, you know. And you get into urban areas and I was right in the middle of it. You know, it was the first time of my life, I can remember going to the grocery store and I saw people who as I was going through the aisle that had, you know, quickly and discreetly, you know, opened up a box of crackers or cookies or whatever and were eating them quickly. You know, it was the first time I’d come face to face with a person who I didn’t know, but was in order to survive, was eating, you know, it was illegal and all that. But they were hungry and they need to eat.

And so it was a very lonely time in my life. I was the only, we lived in a residence hall. I was one of the few people that stayed over the weekends. So it was just because I wasn’t from there. So I had two friends from Africa and me. That was basically it. And so for the better part of a year and a half or two years on the weekends, it was just the three of us. And so I had a friend from Kenya, a friend from Cameroon and me, and we’d do things together. We didn’t have any money, so we’d go out to the mall just to watch people. And I think we had money to buy an ice cream cone or something like that. But what it taught me was the food was different, the culture was different, language patterns were different, words, words were different. You know, I call it a rubber band, they would call it a gum band. I would vacuum the floor, they’d hoover the floor. I mean, there’s all these things that are different.

And you go through kind of a transition where you’re just sort of feel out of sorts. It’s like, I don’t belong. And yet, you know, for the most part, congregations I served in everything for the most part, not completely, you know, pigmentation wise look like me, but I just felt out of sorts. And it took the better part of two years for me before I really started to feel like I belonged. And so when I experienced that here through our students, I have enormous admiration for our students who at a very young age. You know, I was in my early 20s then, as a young man, but at a very young age are, you know, you think about the courage it takes to hop on a plane and fly here or drive here, oftentimes site unseen, very few friends, you know, new surroundings, for you weather, I mean, first time you experienced something below zero.

Anderson Sainci: First time I experienced snow.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. Yeah. So I just think if you can make it through that time somehow that makes us better leaders because I think we’re more empathetic. I think we’re more caring. I think we’re more sensitive to people who come after us. I mean, has that affected you that way?

Anderson Sainci: Yeah. I would also say too, even when we think about the sports analogy, right? We all have goals in life that we wanna achieve. I think it’s important for you to always understand your goals and understanding how does the things around me either get me closer to it or take me further away from it. And as you move to different communities, and as I moved to this community, I had a goal to graduate. It wasn’t to be like the best wrestler, it was I wanted to graduate and have a better life. And I just knew, you know, the people that I was surrounded with, it can either bless you or curse you. So when I got in, I’m very social. I just..

Jeff Bullock: No kidding, I didn’t know that. So that’s a reveal today.

Anderson Sainci: So that’s the most important thing.

Jeff Bullock: From day one. From day one.

Anderson Sainci: Yeah. So you find the people that you cling to that you share common goals and value with. And like you said, although we’re all different, we come from different places, that’s something that brings us all together is that our values, right? We find that a common value, common goals. And although we argue and debate that value in those goals will keep us together and has kept even my, now all my fraternity brothers has kept all of us together for a long, long time.

Jeff Bullock: That makes me happy. That makes me happy. That makes me really happy actually. So, okay, everybody’s got a story. I have the advantage of having met your mother. So, you know, we’ve talked about the challenge of you coming here, your brother coming here and that whole transition, how hard it was on you. But I’m a parent now and I’m thinking of sending my children a long ways away from me. That had to have been really hard on her. Tell me about your mom. I mean, she’s gotta be a strong person.

Anderson Sainci: Very, very strong. So, my mother, she came to the US from Haiti, you know, by herself on a ship.

Jeff Bullock: When was this?

Anderson Sainci: I couldn’t even tell you that. You know, my mom has tried to tell me these stories many time and world is so busy so you try to comprehend and still try to do your day to day jobs. But from what I know of my mom, she came on a boat by herself to get to her mother. Her sister also was on the boat but died because of hunger and just trying to make it to the US to live the American dream. But I didn’t have some of the experiences as probably your normal average kid where your mom and dad visit the school, you talk to teachers, you get a sense. Literally, once my brother left and he didn’t get to visit with my mom, she just said, “Hey, you’re gonna go follow him.”

And at a young age, my mother just taught me some important values of faith, family and community and it’s really tough love. You know, she just believed that hey, this is what God is calling you to do. And she just sent me here and she didn’t help me with financial aid. I had to figure all those things out, like navigating the college experience on my own and a little help with my brother because he was trying to figure it out. But she would constantly just stay on us just saying, Hey, remember your values, remember your values, remember what I taught you. You don’t have to be like, you know, Joe Schmoe, just be you. And at a young age, I always had to work to provide for either me or my family.

And one of the crazy experience that I had was after graduation on that day, and imagine this, you’re sitting down and you finally made it, you finally made your goal of I’m about to graduate. All of my friends and peers, they had their grandmothers or mothers or fathers, even dogs and cats. And I’m like, whoa. My mother couldn’t even come watch me graduate. And it’s not because she didn’t want to, but she couldn’t afford it. So poverty was a serious thing in my family household, and my mother called me that day and she was crying and she said, “You know what, I’m so sorry that I can’t be there for you, but don’t forget your values.” And it wasn’t until years later when for the first time my mother was coming to Iowa to visit, to host an event in the community. And I called a friend probably, or actually emailed a friend maybe like two or three o’clock in the morning and hoping that he would read that email and I said, hey, my mother’s coming into town, can you please do the graduation ceremony again?

You know, I just try to see if that would happen. This person emailed me back probably a few minutes later and said, you got it, and that person was you. And I remember walking up the stairs here into your office. And my mom’s like, “Whoa, this is a school you went to?” And people coming around and saying, “Hey, this is your son. This is what he’s been able to do.” And, of course, you say it, but I don’t think my mom really comprehends like the things that I’ve been able to accomplish in this community because of the values that she taught me. And I remember as we were walking up the stairs to come see you, she started reminiscing and crying again. Like, Hey, I’m so sorry again that I missed it. And that’s when you walked out with the form in your hand and did it and that just made her day.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah, well it was a privilege for me. I was, first of all, I’m wondering what both of us are doing up at three in the morning. So nothing bad. We were working or praying or something, but…

Anderson Sainci: All the above.

Jeff Bullock: All the above. But yeah, I remember that vividly. You had your children were with you and your mom was there and yeah, that was a special moment for me. And yeah she is an amazing woman. I mean that story has to be shared. I mean, there are a lot of, she’s your mom and she really, you think of the strength, the inner strength she’s got to get you and your brother, to part with your children is very difficult and, but she had a dream for you. And then to be able to close that loop and have her experience that with you and in your family, she’s gotta be very proud.

Anderson Sainci: She’s beyond proud and I think as a parent myself with three amazing kids currently, you know that’s one of the things that keeps me up at night also, right? Will my child have a better life than I will? That’s like all of our goals and dreams that we wanna put our children in a position where they can surpass us and be great, whatever that may mean for them. And this is one of the things I think about like how can I continue to put my children in the best position where they can be successful so I can one day have that experience where I’m crying and say, wow, it was all worth it.

Jeff Bullock: Well, that’s coming. I mean your kids are how old?

Anderson Sainci: I have a set at seven, a nine and a five right now.

Jeff Bullock: So you’re in the thick of it, you’re in the thick of it. So probably what second grades? Second, third grade, first, second grade, kindergarten coming up, close.

Anderson Sainci: Kindergarten coming up. One is gonna be in the fourth and my daughter is gonna be in the second and life just goes by so fast.

Jeff Bullock: You realize in eight years you’re gonna have somebody graduating from high school?

Anderson Sainci: Don’t rush it. It’s scary to even think about.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah, yeah. Well, put me on speed dial. So when you have one of those moments where you need to be talked off the ledge, call me.

Anderson Sainci: I will do that in a heartbeat.

Jeff Bullock: I’ve got a friend in Des Moines, that speed dial. He has said, you’re gonna need this. He told me this, he said, “You’re gonna need this. And so call me, I’ll talk you off.” And believe me, I’ve called him. So there you go. You’ve got to have people because it’s a challenging time and it’s as you know, it’s a formative time. Part of the challenge of being a parent is we react often out of fear. Because we’re old enough to know what can happen and so much of formation and growing up is you have to experience a lot of it on your own. And it’s a fine balance as a parent to know, okay I’m fearful but they also have to learn some hard lessons and…

Anderson Sainci: Correct. So how are you teaching your kids? I’m just curious, you know, because you have three, you’ve been in the game as we say for awhile. So kids these days, they’re no longer just competing with people in the US, right? Now everyone’s talking about a global perspective. So what advices are you giving to your kids about, hey, you got to compete globally now? Like I’m trying to take some advice now so I can prepare my kids.

Jeff Bullock: Well, you sort of, you reach a point where you say if you had it to do over again, but that’s not a useful thing to think about. But first of all, the stunning part for me is same DNA, how different each one of our children are. They’re just different and you have to learn how to parent differently for each one. It’s always harder being the oldest I think because what we forget is parents are learning how to, we don’t just know how to be parents, you know. It’s often harder on the first one. I have found that part of being a decent parent, a good parent is having people, other people who have been through it that you can just talk to. And in talking to other people where I might think we’re at a critical moment here, they’re like, you know, we’ll just take a step back. And so the wisdom of our elders is really critical.

I think in helping kids in today’s environment, every generation thinks the generation after them are slackers, you know? They do, that’s just the way it is. What I have found is young people learn differently today than they learned when I was their age. And so they pick up a lot of information from the internet, from YouTube, from, so there’s a lot of self-teaching that goes on. And I think what I’m aware of now that I wasn’t even maybe 5 or 10 years ago is students or young people are much more aware of the world around them than I understand.

The key is, I think, how to compete is kind of back to wrestling, in a way, it’s the basics. How do you instill a good work ethic? How do you instill a sense of an ability to pick yourself up again? You know, how do you instill a sense of compassion, you know, how do you instill a sense of love? You know, what we talk about in our household is, you know, and our kids are involved in athletics, is there are only two things you can control. That’s your attitude and your effort. You can control those. Everything else, you can’t control if you get hurt, you can’t control if the weather’s bad, you can’t control if the other team or the other wrestler’s better than you, but you can control your attitude and your effort. And I think those are kind of two fundamental life lessons that transcend whatever’s happening around us, whether it’s competing in Dubuque or competing in the state of Iowa or competing nationally or internationally. If you’ve got a good attitude, if you put forth a good effort and have a good work ethic, you’re going to be okay. You know, you gotta be prepared, but you’re going to be okay.

I think that’s probably the two most important lessons I hope we’re teaching our children. So speaking of attitude and effort and I don’t wanna end before we’ve talked about this. So here’s this young recent college graduate, graduate school graduate, young African-American kid from Florida, lives in Dubuque, and suddenly I hear he’s running for the school board. What is that all about? Tell me, I mean, how did you get to that point? Something triggered that desire. In your faith tradition and from your family and I hope some of the things you learn here, you understand the importance of service. By why the school board, how did that happen?

Anderson Sainci: Well, I think everything that I do is about serving right. And I think it comes from that foundation of my faith and belief in that someone came to serve me and risked his life for me. And that’s what I’m called to do for others. And it’s not something I push on people, but you know, I wear it proudly. And so I try to model that as well. And when it came to just running for school board, first of all, I work in government. So again, government is about serving the people. So I may disagree with where we’re at now, but it’s still about serving the people and what’s best for people and not your self-interests. So at that time, people were coming and talking to me and saying, hey, we think you would be a great fit for the school board. So people believing in you and seeing something probably in you that will be better for the community. And sometimes you don’t think about it because you’re so focused on your goals.

Jeff Bullock: But how old are you at that time when people are coming to you?

Anderson Sainci: So I’d say I was around in my late 20s, late 20s, and I think it also came because of my passion. People will see your passion and when you’re so focused on the work and serving others, people will come to you and ask you like, Hey, you would be good on a board or you’ll be good serving on this commission. And at that same time, you’re developing and sharpening skillsets. So when I decided to run for school board, I had to go talk to, you know, three people, number one the boss, which is my wife. And I had to…

Jeff Bullock: Good. I wanna hear more about that.

Anderson Sainci: And I had to ask her because at any politics, you never know where people will go and how they will try to use politics to either bring you up or take you down. So I wanted to make sure that she was on board with it.

Jeff Bullock: And was she?

Anderson Sainci: Originally, she was not, but she understood my passion and my calling.

Jeff Bullock: So what brought her around you think?

Anderson Sainci: I think it was the calling aspect. You know, we prayed about it and she just, my wife is one who is behind the scenes and she is the one who will, you know, just empower you from that aspect right there. She’s okay, this is something you really wanted to do and I see that you’re passionate about it. I’m gonna support you.

Jeff Bullock: So you two met here.

Anderson Sainci: We met here on the campus.

Jeff Bullock: And so faith is an important part of your relationship.

Anderson Sainci: It is the foundation. It is what keeps us together, what inspires us to keep pushing forward. So it’s that stack glue, you know, and again, it’s not about our marriage alone. It’s about someone who is gluing us together and he gets the glory through our marriage. So the second boss was our current city manager. And I had to sit down with him. He’s one of my mentors and said, “Hey, is there any conflict of interest with this?” And he said, “No, I don’t see any conflict. And I think you would be a great addition.”

Jeff Bullock: How’d that make you feel? The city manager, Mike is a very influential, well-respected person here in this community, he’s done a wonderful job. So I mean, he’s a good leader himself. So having a mentor and a person of his stature, you know, affirm you that way. That had to have been pretty empowering.

Anderson Sainci: It inspires me whenever he shares with me knowledge, information and he’s a very strategic thinker too. So he won’t always just give you the answer. He will make you reflect and process things. But when he was very direct with me in that space right there, it gave me hope that not only did my wife believe in me, but someone that I aspire to develop his skillsets said, hey, no, I think you would be great. And then the last was just community members. You know, I met with a variety of community members that I truly admire them and their voice really matters to me, right? So when I asked them what their thoughts were, I know they were gonna be the leaders who would tell me the real versus people that would tell you what you want to hear. Like, yeah, just go out there and do it. You’ll be great. I wanted people who really knew me and would really give me their true opinion and all of them said yes. So it’s like, all right, let’s see what happens.

Jeff Bullock: I remember one of them very clearly was my boss, my wife I think met if I remember right, you two had lunch together.

Anderson Sainci: Yes we did.

Jeff Bullock: And because this was very important to her. So what did she, out of curiosity, what did she say? Because she’s, I mean we share a very similar background in that way and so Dana is very insightful. She prefers to be behind the scenes like your wife, but she cares deeply about things. And so I’m guessing had something to say.

Anderson Sainci: Wow. She had a lot of great words of wisdom just for me as someone who’s also in politics, right? But like you said, behind the scenes really. Number one passion, right? She wanted to make sure that the reason why I was doing it is because of passion and not for self-interest. Number two, related to that passion, making sure that I had passion for all the kids and not the kids who were just doing very well, right? We have a lot of kids in our community who are struggling for various reasons and she wanted to make sure that I would also be a voice for those kids as well. And I assured her that I would, and I assured her through my experience growing up, right. Growing up, poor, growing up, single-family home household, growing up with a variety of different perspectives that I wanted to bring to the school board.

So she gave me comfort right there. And she also told me too, the importance of finding common ground and building relationships with people. And it’s always important to make sure that when you’re meeting people, you make sure that they feel good, right? Because when you’re in a political position, people can see you as this high person. But she reminded me to stay at the Lord’s feet and you know, be as humble as possible.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like my wife. So, okay, you’re on the school board and you’ve been on several years now.

Anderson Sainci: Going on three years now.

Jeff Bullock: So what, you know, there was an old… two things, two observations I have about the school board. There’s an old adage that goes, the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world. So I’ve always thought of it as a pretty interesting phrase. I’ve always felt that I really have felt, and I’ve talked about this publicly, that serving on the school board is the most politically important elected office in our country next to president of the United States and it’s the least appreciated. Because from importance, I mean the school board is really the hand that’s rocking the cradle of our children. The decisions you make impact the environment they learn in, the environment they grow in. I mean, so there’s an enormous amount of responsibility that comes with that, that most people just don’t get because you’re rarely on the front page. You’re only on the front page if something bad happening.

Anderson Sainci: Thank goodness.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. So what have you learned in your two years on the school board? Maybe a good question is what have you learned that you didn’t know about before and kind of how do you experience it? What for people that don’t know what it’s like, how would you help us understand what it is like?

Anderson Sainci: Yeah. So the first thing it’s amazing to be the first African-American male ever on the Dubuque school board. And that’s something that no one can ever take away from me and my children and my children’s children will know that. And hopefully, it provides hope for the next generation of African-Americans who wanna be involved. The only African-American elected official in our community right now. The things that I’ve learned so far that you have to find common ground because everyone has an agenda, right, of what they want to accomplish. You have your own goals. But when you come to a space where there’s multiple people, again, you have to find common ground and you always have to have the big picture in mind. And with the school board, it’s what’s best for all of our kids, what’s best for every single kid and we don’t want to try to only do for this particular group. However, another thing that I have enjoyed with my experience is learning about what motivates each school board member and how collectively we bring our different perspectives to again, enhance what’s already being done.

So we have a strategic plan, which is really good. We’re using our perspective, we’re trying to really do what’s best for every single kid. And we’re calling out the kids that we feel that are not doing well on the school board. So it’s looking at things from an equity lens and for me, going back to being a servant leader. I learn by doing, by being hands-on. So every year I visit every single school, I take the trash out, I serve lunch to kids, I read books, and I try not to tell teachers who already don’t know who I am, that I am a school board member because of the power dynamic. I just tell people I’m a caring guy who likes kids and I wanna know what’s one thing that I can do to make your job better? And they’re like, do you really wanna know? It’s like, yeah. And then once they find out who I am, they’re like, wow, thanks for really caring. That says, Hey, I’m here to serve, not to be at a position. My job is to serve people.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t know that and I think that’s wonderful. And I think you learn a lot by being right in the middle of the situation, don’t you? So I can remember when our guys were young having made it a point of having lunch, you know, and the lunch was…the lunch tables were brought out in the middle of the gym and there’s a lot going on in that little area at that period of time. So when you think about that, so when you look at, if you go to every single one of our schools every year, so how do you experience that? What are some of our challenges? What are some of the opportunities that you see? So think about both of them. So what gives you as a parent, what gives you kind of concern? So maybe let’s start there. You’re a school board official, you’re a servant, you’re a parent, you’re in the middle of the school. What concerns you?

Anderson Sainci: Yeah. And I think the best way to answer that is through the story that I remember. Going into one of our school building and working with the teacher and she said, Mr. Anderson, and it’s always kind of nerve-wracking when someone says, Mr. Anderson, when they’re older than me. It’s like I have to respect you, right? But she says, when every single student walks into my office or my room, I have to unpack what’s in their book bag. And I’m like, well, what are you talking about? She says, I don’t know if my child is hungry, if my child is dealing with mental trauma or brain trauma, if there’s any drugs in the household, like I have to figure that out. So that’s the biggest concern for me, that each one of our children are bringing in unique challenges that a lot of our teachers are not used to. That’s a diverse part, right? And they’re not equipped. Not all of them are equipped to deal with those.

The hope is we do have some teachers who have experienced dealing with some of these issues who know how to support different children’s. And I think our job as a school board is to make sure that all of our teachers and buildings have every single tool that they need to be successful. And how can I not only provide that, but also advocate for that from a state level and to our community because I do believe that a lot of our problems can be solved if we can engage more community partners to help us.

Jeff Bullock: Well, you bring up a great point because teachers are being asked to do things that even 5, 10 years ago, teachers weren’t asked to do it. It’s not just being asked to do, they have to do. So in a way, teaching is no longer about showing up, you know, doing your work the night before, preparing for the lesson, you know, teaching the lesson and moving on to the next class and repeat it, moving on to the next class, repeat. That there’s what you’re saying is there’s a whole set of other issues or conditions or concerns. A child can’t learn to their potential if they’re hungry. A child can’t learn to their fullest potential if they are struggling with brain health issues or if there’s dissension or trouble in the family unit. You just can’t because you’re gonna be distracted and that holds us down.

So as a school board, how do you think about that? I mean, I agree. I think that’s…and by the way, I think that whole, those challenges that we’ve talked about are the one thing, one of the few things that unite us demographically, socioeconomically. I don’t know that a lot of those issues know socioeconomic difference. I think whether wealthy family, poor family, middle income, family, I think that’s just a lot of what you’ve talked about, at least some of what you’ve talked about is just a condition of children today. So what can we do as a community to help address some of those things? Teachers can’t do it all on their own. So what do we need to do? What does the average citizen who attended Dubuque senior high school 40 years ago, what do they need to know now that they didn’t know then and what can we do as citizens to help contribute to that change?

Anderson Sainci: I think the best thing is understanding that life is gonna be different, right, not only for our kids but kids to come. And like you said, how do we bring community together to call these things out, right? Call these things out if it’s comfortable or uncomfortable and say, what can we do about it? As a leader it’s okay for me to say, Hey, I don’t have the answers, right? And it’s okay for me to invite people to help me co-create how to identify these issues and solve these issues. And I just remember even last night I had a group of 25 kids that were attending an event at Laura’s, their peace institute, and they came to our church to learn more about what we do. And we did an activity about understanding differences.

So we get in a circle and if you can relate to a comment then I make you walk through. One of the questions that I asked, I said, “How many of you are experiencing some type of brain trauma right now?” Half of the kids walk through, they walk through the circle. And I remember doing that activity here and that is something that there’s a stigma behind just brain trauma and people don’t feel comfortable. But then we were reflected on that, like what did you observe? What did you feel when you saw people walk through? And the fact that so many kids were crying and they said, I thought I was alone, but now I see someone else’s experience in what I’m experiencing, right?

So teachers are not alone, that they’re not the only ones who are dealing with these issues. And I think the more that we can come together as a community and process and reflect and identify some solutions and put some data behind that, I think we can hopefully figure out how to make the community a better place in our schools.

Jeff Bullock: Right. When we, as you know, I mean Dana, my wife and I are passionate about brain health issues and what we’ve found is just in our student body here, 25% of our student body come to us with a diagnosed brain health condition. Another 25% come to us with an undiagnosed condition. So one in every two students here are struggling in some form or another or learning to cope with and manage a brain health condition. That’s everything from the big two on college campuses are anxiety and depression to things like ADD or ADHD or any number of conditions. And as we’ve worked on this over the years, it’s really once you used the phrase brain health as opposed to mental health, it somehow de-stigmatizes it.

And what we’ve learned is students somehow I think part of the solution, I don’t know the why. My hunch is this has always been with us. We’re just a little more sensitized to it now. Maybe not. Everybody wants to sort of blame social media and all that. I think that’s probably part of it, that adds the anxiety certainly. But it seems to me the sooner we can intervene, the sooner we can identify a challenge is the sooner we can intervene and it’s like any other physical condition, the sooner we intervene and provide a treatment protocol, the healthier a person gets sooner. And I suspect public education has a role in that. It’s also a role that is yet to be defined because it’s changing, our culture is changing so much and we have to provide as taxpayers and citizens. We have to provide support for that. That stuff isn’t free.

And I mean, what would…you know, you experienced that in the school system. That’s a challenge that you as a community, as elected officials are working on. And I think that’s something we need to share with you as a citizen. I need to be part of that solution. What do you experience that’s positive, that gives you hope? What you experienced yesterday in the Loris Leadership Academy, that that gives you hope, but what are things as you go to these different schools, what gives you hope?

Anderson Sainci: Well, I think number one is teachers who are passionate about mastering their craft, who are passionate about students. That gives me hope. The lunchroom ladies, you know. It’s the simple things that we take for granted. The people who are serving and feeding our kids, the janitors and every single one of our buildings who are maintaining the building, that gives me hope. The principals that I’ve build an authentic relationship with that share their vision and passion with me. And I can just go on and on about the superintendent who’s one of the best superintendents probably in the world, who I have a great relationship with. The secretaries, you name it. I just think we have so much passionate people that are trying to do their best. And I think at times they too feel alone. Like they’re the only one who is trying to help and impact kids.

And the more that they feel a sense of the community is coming in to not take over but help co-create what the next education will look like for our students I think again, we’ll begin to see people just working together. And I think it’s even important with the mental health because what I’ve learned with politics again is everyone has an agenda. Let’s put our agenda to the side, right? And let’s just figure out what’s best for our entire community, right? And the more that we come together as a community and leave our agendas aside and we come together and we co-create what our communities will look like, we’re gonna make a better place for our kids. And our kids have to be at the table when we’re making those conversations and decisions as well.

Jeff Bullock: Right. You know, we are most closely aligned now because our kids have all been in high school with Dr. Johnson Snr and I really admire the way he works as a principal and the way he’s out and about, you know, and it’s like, who knows, I might have been like president of the universe had I had a Dr. Johnson as a principal. I mean just one look from that guy and I want…my posture is better. He’s really an amazing person. But what you’ve talked about or you know, here on campus we have our campus mom who greets everyone, Barb Smelser, who greets everyone in what’s now called Smelser Dining hall. But she knows everybody and she cares about everybody. And what makes her so wonderful is that she doesn’t come into a relationship with students with an agenda.

She’s got a formal title and nobody knows what it is. They just know her as mom. When you talk about regular schools, the people who work in the cafeteria who are serving food, they pick up with what’s happening in the students right away. They are very influential. Janitors are very influential people. And I think we often forget, you know, I think it’s a little trite now, but it does take a village. It takes a village, a community of people in that building that make it work. I can remember when our guys went to Bryant Elementary School and the privilege I had I was able to drop them off to kindergarten every day. That was when I wasn’t traveling, that’s what I did. And whether it was raining or snowing or cold or hot every single day, I can see, I won’t use her name, but I can see the principal standing in the little walkway before the children got in the door, greeted every one of those kids on a first name basis, tapped him on the head. What a powerful impact.

Anderson Sainci: That still happens. That still happens every single day when I visit.

Jeff Bullock: Isn’t that wonderful?

Anderson Sainci: It’s mind-blowing how they can remember every single child.

Jeff Bullock: Yeah. And that doesn’t… I’m convinced that that’s one of the really…I wrote about it actually in a couple of articles years ago, that that’s one of the really unique things about our community. That doesn’t happen. Years ago we had a superintendent here who wanted to kind of build one mega school, you know, one mega elementary. And what you lose is that touch, that personal touch, particularly in K through, you know, fifth grade now. Kids are best formed in smaller environments where they have a name, you know, they’re respected. And I think this community, and I think you as one of the leaders in this community does a tremendous job helping that to happen. So we’re grateful for that…

Anderson Sainci: Well, it’s interesting you say the personal touch. I don’t know if you remember when I was a student here on campus, I used to see you out and I’m gonna say in the University of Dubuque’s community, and you modeled the things that even I do today. I used to see you walk around talking to the janitors, talking to everyone on campus. I’m just curious, do you still have the opportunity to get out and connect with everyone as much as you want or?

Jeff Bullock: Not as much as I want, but I still do it and I do it for the same reasons you do it because one, I love people and two every person here is committed to this mission. And if they’re not, they know this isn’t the place for them. We’re not obnoxious about it, but you have to be committed. Three, I learn a lot, you know, and I learn a lot from these people. They’re friends, they’re colleagues, and I really respect and admire the work that they do. So and it’s just impossible not to love these folks. I won’t mention names because I’ll leave somebody out, but I see them every day doing different things. And I also see the way they interact with students and over and over again, the comment that we get. I was just in a conversation in the O’Hare airport probably a month ago with a father whose child is here.

They finish their first year and one of the things they told me was that, you know, it’s like the minute they set foot on campus, they were greeted, they were welcomed. And, you know, if we ever get away from that, I think we’ve lost something really important. So I don’t know if I try, I should reflect on, I don’t think of myself as a leader in that regard. I do it because I love people. And I think the ancillary benefits from that, you know, whether you’re visiting Bryant and Hoover and Senior and Hamstead and, you know, what you do is learn what’s actually happening on the ground. And one of the real challenges of leadership is you get disconnected. There’s a difference between what you think is happening and what’s actually happening. And I call it grazing by the way. I can tell you where all the best candy is. And you know who’s got what. It’s fun for me.

So, Anderson, I’ve taken a lot of your time today, but I wanna thank you, you know. And I don’t mean this at all in anything but a genuine way, but I’m very proud of you and, uh, it’s been a blessing too, for us, for Dana and me to know you personally. I think God has a plan, has a plan for you being here as a student and as a leader in this community. And it’ll be fun to watch how that plan continues to unfold in your life and in the life of your family. And thank you for just being one of our alums and for the good work that you’re doing for our community. So I think we’ll end it there and say, God bless you and go Spartans.

Anderson Sainci: Go Spartans for sure. Thank you.

Jeff Bullock: Thank you. God bless you.

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